Hi all,
I recently acquired a BD-SL-I.MX6 and will be tinkering with it to install seL4. A major use case for me is if I could run [bitcoind](https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Bitcoind) or at least [vanitygen](https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Vanitygen) on seL4. I'm very new to the system, but is there a relatively easy way of cross-compiling said software for seL4? Would love to spend some time learning.
Cheers, Carl Dong accounts@carldong.me
Hi Carl,
I'm just a lurker (until now) but as no one else has addressed your question I thought I'd take a stab at it.
Besides, I enjoy getting publicly corrected as a means of getting to know people.
Briefly, I do not think the seL4 software stack has yet been built to the heights you require to run the programs you wish, not without Herculean effort from you.
Long answer:
As far as I can tell, seL4 is still very much a research operating system, and much userspace infrastructure is missing or incomplete. If we compare it to the early days of Linux (the kernel), then one could say that libc hasn't been ported to it yet, let alone has anyone put together the first "distribution" (like Soft Landing Systems did, IIRC).
People have gotten seL4 to do real work but as far as I can tell it has been by deploying the kernel and then coding directly against it. I looked briefly at your links and it appears to me that bitcoind and vanitygen are both very much applications that expect to run in a POSIX-like userspace.
Unfortunately seL4 is not there yet. From my perspective it has yet to expand its userbase from an ambitious class of kernel developers--those who want to break new ground, not just hack on a Unix-like OS--to systems programmers, let alone application developers.
Disclaimer: As noted above, I've been only a lurker for many months and am still struggling to understand many seL4 concepts. In my opinion, the lexicon used to discuss the system is still in flux, which makes the system hard for newbies outside of OS research to pick up, and no hand-wavy, analogy-heavy documentation exists to bring novices like me up to speed. This is not a criticism of the community; it's a diagnosis. What little I do understand of seL4 excites me tremendously; there are simply too few people working on it. This is the proverbial ground floor. Care to step aboard?
Er, hi, guys. I think the only person here I know is Jeff, and it's been a good 10 years...
Regards, Branden
On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 1:49 PM, Carl Dong accounts@carldong.me wrote:
Hi all,
I recently acquired a BD-SL-I.MX6 and will be tinkering with it to install seL4. A major use case for me is if I could run bitcoind or at least vanitygen on seL4. I'm very new to the system, but is there a relatively easy way of cross-compiling said software for seL4? Would love to spend some time learning.
Cheers, Carl Dong accounts@carldong.me
Devel mailing list Devel@sel4.systems https://sel4.systems/lists/listinfo/devel
"""Briefly, I do not think the seL4 software stack has yet been built to the heights you require to run the programs you wish, not without Herculean effort from you."""
one option is to use the genode project, which provides an OS toolkit that can use sel4 as a kernel and does have higher level primitives you may want, such as a networking stack and a filesystem, and even a mini posix subsystem.
On Thu, Dec 1, 2016 at 7:27 AM, Branden Robinson < g.branden.robinson@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Carl,
I'm just a lurker (until now) but as no one else has addressed your question I thought I'd take a stab at it.
Besides, I enjoy getting publicly corrected as a means of getting to know people.
Briefly, I do not think the seL4 software stack has yet been built to the heights you require to run the programs you wish, not without Herculean effort from you.
Long answer:
As far as I can tell, seL4 is still very much a research operating system, and much userspace infrastructure is missing or incomplete. If we compare it to the early days of Linux (the kernel), then one could say that libc hasn't been ported to it yet, let alone has anyone put together the first "distribution" (like Soft Landing Systems did, IIRC).
People have gotten seL4 to do real work but as far as I can tell it has been by deploying the kernel and then coding directly against it. I looked briefly at your links and it appears to me that bitcoind and vanitygen are both very much applications that expect to run in a POSIX-like userspace.
Unfortunately seL4 is not there yet. From my perspective it has yet to expand its userbase from an ambitious class of kernel developers--those who want to break new ground, not just hack on a Unix-like OS--to systems programmers, let alone application developers.
Disclaimer: As noted above, I've been only a lurker for many months and am still struggling to understand many seL4 concepts. In my opinion, the lexicon used to discuss the system is still in flux, which makes the system hard for newbies outside of OS research to pick up, and no hand-wavy, analogy-heavy documentation exists to bring novices like me up to speed. This is not a criticism of the community; it's a diagnosis. What little I do understand of seL4 excites me tremendously; there are simply too few people working on it. This is the proverbial ground floor. Care to step aboard?
Er, hi, guys. I think the only person here I know is Jeff, and it's been a good 10 years...
Regards, Branden
On Tue, Nov 29, 2016 at 1:49 PM, Carl Dong accounts@carldong.me wrote:
Hi all,
I recently acquired a BD-SL-I.MX6 and will be tinkering with it to
install
seL4. A major use case for me is if I could run bitcoind or at least vanitygen on seL4. I'm very new to the system, but is there a relatively easy way of cross-compiling said software for seL4? Would love to spend
some
time learning.
Cheers, Carl Dong accounts@carldong.me
Devel mailing list Devel@sel4.systems https://sel4.systems/lists/listinfo/devel
Devel mailing list Devel@sel4.systems https://sel4.systems/lists/listinfo/devel
On Thu, Dec 1, 2016 at 10:22 AM, Tim Newsham tim.newsham@gmail.com wrote:
"""Briefly, I do not think the seL4 software stack has yet been built to the heights you require to run the programs you wish, not without Herculean effort from you."""
one option is to use the genode project,
.....
Briefly, I do not think the seL4 software stack has yet been built to the heights you require to run the programs you wish, not without Herculean effort from you.
Long answer:
As far as I can tell, seL4 is still very much a research operating system,
The critical questions involve the mining effort you wish to achieve. Without access to the GPU or multiple GPUs mining will be slow.
The success of Linux is that it is the union of many large projects. Kernel and GNU .... editors, compilers, filesystem, networking, device drivers, display, window system...
So look to see if your mining hardware has any support and a way to multi boot. Then begin working in a spare disk or partition and perhaps a virtual machine.
On real problem is checkpoint and restart. Checkpoint and restart are difficult and add serious security state management issues. Mining is a long term activity...
Heavy lifting is a good description but I know some heavy lifters so have fun and explore it.
-
Branden Robinson -
Carl Dong -
Tim Newsham -
Tom Mitchell