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CDT traveling
by Yanfeng Liu 18 Dec '24

18 Dec '24

Dear experts, I am trying to understand the memory usage of a running seL4 demo with help of GDB. I am wondering how I can travel the Capability derivation tree starting from original untyped objects and see how memory are used. I noticed that `mdb_node_t` has `mdbPrev` and `mdbNext` pointer fields but not sure how can they be used to travel the capability derivation tree? Regards, yf

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On Common IPC Patterns in Microkit
by Wanja.Zaeske＠dlr.de 16 Dec '24

16 Dec '24

Hi together, during the proceedings of the last seL4 summit I participated in a discussion about Microkit usability. In particular we were talking about common patterns for IPC in Microkit, potential pitfalls and how the Microkit Tutorial introduces some of them implicitly (by requiring the user to apply them). At some point Kent suggested to put the topic on the mailing list, so here we go 😊. When initially playing through the Microkit Tutorial, I assumed that the budget/period of a protection domain were providing uninterrupted time-slots. I was thus slightly surprised, when I found out that sending a notification to a higher priority PD would immediately preempt my current PD. Now, this on its own is not problematic, Gernot simply commented my mistake with "Yes, priorities are observed". However: When playing the Microkit tutorial, I understood the way to solve Part 2 (Serial Server to Client Communication) to be as follows: * [serial server] write received char to shared buffer. * [serial server] notify client. * [client] read char from shared buffer. This is also the current approach found in the provided solution [1]. This works in some (most!) cases, but it is not reliable. It could be that chars get lost, due to the serial server overwriting the buffer before it was consumed form the client. The specific details if this works depend upon the combination of: * Data size (not-so-critical with one byte, but more data means more time is required to consume the buffer form the client) * Budget/Period of the client (can the client read all data before it is preempted by exhaustion of its budget in the current period) * Hardware Performance (same as above) * Priorities (if the serial server is higher priority and gets triggered by another hardware event before the client can consume the char, it gets lost again) This is problematic: the details of the scheduling are not very explicit in the manual (roughly one half of a page), but the first example of IPC taught via the tutorial relies on a lot of implicit circumstance on how PDs are scheduled to function correctly. Now I have three suggestions to improve upon this. 1. In the tutorial, explicitly mention the possibility of using the same notification channel in the opposite direction for a read-ACK. If another serial interrupt comes, but no ACK was received, just log an error. The point is not, to introduce ring-buffers and a the machinery for robust communication -- that would like explode the scope for a simple tutorial. Rather, the point is to teach people that this IPC mechanism may silently fail (as in chars get dropped). 2. For certain scheduling + IPC scenarios, examples with a graphical representation would be good. Here are two examples: Sending data to a higher priority PD (via notifications + shared memory) [2] and sending data to a lower priority PD (via notification + shared memory + ACK notification) [3]. Please bear with me, my talent to intuitive graphical representation is of limited nature, this for sure could be made better looking. In the end, I'd like to have an engineer short on time quickly look up the current scenario (sharing data bi-/unidir?, other PD is strictly higher prio/lower prio?, silent loss of data tolerable or not?, ...) from a table, take a look at the timing diagram and pick the correct approach for the task at hand. Microkit does not provide very sophisticated IPC APIs, and that is good! It keeps Microkit small, and the API IMHO provides everything needed, for synchronous and asynchronous communication, for large and small data, ... But composing the IPC correctly is not trivial, so anything we can to take sharp edges of the experience without bloating the API should be considered. 3. I think, there is a finite number of relevant IPC scenarios. Maybe one can build a tool to verify them (something something Promela?) and display them graphically (something something PlantUML Timing Diagrams?). This could either be used to fill a chapter in the Microkit Manual ("Common IPC Patterns, their Behavior and Pitfalls"?), or exposed as small (Web?) GUI Tool. Maybe this could become part of a student thesis even? I hope the above might spark some thought on improving accessibility of Microkit. Kind Regards, Wanja [PlantUML diagram] [PlantUML diagram] [1] https://github.com/au-ts/microkit_tutorial/blob/6733b7864217831e4e77616647e… [2] https://www.plantuml.com/plantuml/uml/VL9DYzim4BthLppIGoxP49kwWHvADlHOIYc5F… [3] https://www.plantuml.com/plantuml/uml/XLDDYzim4BthLpnosKisnA4Ecq9BjlHOIkbbp… —————————————————————————— Deutsches Zentrum für Luft- und Raumfahrt (DLR) Institut für Flugsystemtechnik | Sichere Systeme & Systems Engineering | Lilienthalplatz 7 | 38108 Braunschweig Wanja Zaeske Telefon 0531 295-1114 | Fax 0531 295-2931 | wanja.zaeske(a)dlr.de<mailto:wanja.zaeske@dlr.de> DLR.de<http://www.dlr.de/>

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address of L1 CNode Cap
by Yanfeng Liu 12 Dec '24

12 Dec '24

Dear experts, When reading section 3.3.2 of the latest seL4 manual, it says: > Figure 3.3 depicts an example CSpace. In order to illustrate these ideas, we determine the address of each of the 10 capabilities in this CSpace. I guess the total number of 10 is made of 3 caps for CNode types and 7 for non- CNode ones A~G as shown in diagram. However, in the following graph, the address of the L1 CNode Cap is missed. Thus I am curious what the address for that L1 CNode Cap? Regards, yf

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seL4 developer hangout reminder
by Birgit Brecknell 09 Dec '24

09 Dec '24

Hi all A friendly reminder that the seL4 developer hangout is on again this week. Wed 11 Dec, 7:00am UTC. For your local date and time please see https://sel4.systems/contact/. Zoom link: https://unsw.zoom.us/j/82640784431 Birgit Brecknell seL4 Foundation Project Coordinator Sydney, Australia Mon 9-5 Wed 2-5 Fri 9-5 birgit(a)sel4.systems <mailto:birgit@sel4.systems> bbrcknl(a)gmail.com <mailto:bbrcknl@gmail.com>

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LionsOS musllibc old version? Vulnerable?
by Hugo V.C. 30 Nov '24

30 Nov '24

Hi, reading the dependencies of LionsOS I realized it is using an old version of muslibc : https://github.com/au-ts/musllibc/blob/81842bc43d0b49bbcca03ff5f506c6df8e2b… if this version has not been patched may be vulnerable to a remotely exploitable buffer overflow in the dns resolution: https://git.musl-libc.org/cgit/musl/commit/?id=45ca5d3fcb6f874bf5ba55d0e965… Can someone confirm or reject? Thanks.

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find all seL4 threads
by Yanfeng 25 Nov '24

25 Nov '24

Dear experts, I am wondering when checking a running seL4 target from GDB, how can we find all threads? It seems that `ksReadyQueues[]` only holds a sub set. Regards, yf

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seL4 developer hangout reminder
by Birgit Brecknell 25 Nov '24

25 Nov '24

Hi all A friendly reminder that the seL4 developer hangout is on again this week. Tue 26 Nov, 9:00pm UTC. For your local date and time please see https://sel4.systems/contact/. Zoom link: https://unsw.zoom.us/j/82640784431 Birgit Brecknell seL4 Foundation Project Coordinator Sydney, Australia Mon 9-5 Wed 2-5 Fri 9-5 birgit(a)sel4.systems <mailto:birgit@sel4.systems> bbrcknl(a)gmail.com <mailto:bbrcknl@gmail.com>

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iMX8MM seL4 12.1.0 running a VM
by Zippy Manaic 22 Nov '24

22 Nov '24

Hi, I have encountered a problem where the device tree is not correctly being parsed resulting in interrupts not being routed to the VM. A node which exhibits this issue is (there are several more in the iMX8MM device tree that also trigger the problem) ``` snvs@30370000 { compatible = "fsl,sec-v4.0-mon\0syscon\0simple-mfd"; reg = <0x30370000 0x10000>; phandle = <0x1b>; snvs-rtc-lp { compatible = "fsl,sec-v4.0-mon-rtc-lp"; regmap = <0x1b>; offset = <0x34>; interrupts = <0x00 0x13 0x04 0x00 0x14 0x04>; clocks = <0x02 0xe4>; clock-names = "snvs-rtc"; }; }; ``` Interrupts 0x13 and 0x14 should be included in the camkes_dtb_irqs[] variable but they are not. Looking at the node as it is parsed in macros.py via the function parse_dtb_node_interrupts {'compatible': ['fsl,sec-v4.0-mon', 'syscon', 'simple-mfd'], 'reg': [808910848, 65536], 'phandle': [27], 'snvs_rtc_lp': [<pyfdt.pyfdt.FdtPropertyStrings object at 0x7483b4c28f10>, <pyfdt.pyfdt.FdtPropertyWords object at 0x7483b4c28f70>, <pyfdt.pyfdt.FdtPropertyWords object at 0x7483b4c28fd0>, <pyfdt.pyfdt.FdtPropertyWords object at 0x7483b4c2f070>, <pyfdt.pyfdt.FdtPropertyWords object at 0x7483b4c2f0d0>, <pyfdt.pyfdt.FdtPropertyStrings object at 0x7483b4c2f130>], 'snvs_rtc_lp_compatible': ['fsl,sec-v4.0-mon-rtc-lp'], 'snvs_rtc_lp_regmap': [27], 'snvs_rtc_lp_offset': [52], 'snvs_rtc_lp_interrupts': [0, 19, 4, 0, 20, 4], 'snvs_rtc_lp_clocks': [2, 228], 'snvs_rtc_lp_clock_names': ['snvs-rtc'], 'snvs_powerkey': [<pyfdt.pyfdt.FdtPropertyStrings object at 0x7483b4c2f1f0>, <pyfdt.pyfdt.FdtPropertyWords object at 0x7483b4c2f250>, <pyfdt.pyfdt.FdtPropertyWords object at 0x7483b4c2f2b0>, <pyfdt.pyfdt.FdtPropertyWords object at 0x7483b4c2f310>, <pyfdt.pyfdt.FdtPropertyStrings object at 0x7483b4c2f370>, <pyfdt.pyfdt.FdtPropertyWords object at 0x7483b4c2f3d0>, <pyfdt.pyfdt.FdtProperty object at 0x7483b4c2f430>, <pyfdt.pyfdt.FdtPropertyStrings object at 0x7483b4c2f490>], 'snvs_powerkey_compatible': ['fsl,sec-v4.0-pwrkey'], 'snvs_powerkey_regmap': [27], 'snvs_powerkey_interrupts': [0, 4, 4], 'snvs_powerkey_clocks': [2, 228], 'snvs_powerkey_clock_names': ['snvs-pwrkey'], 'snvs_powerkey_linux_keycode': [116], 'snvs_powerkey_wakeup_source': [], 'snvs_powerkey_status': ['okay'], 'this_address_cells': [1], 'this_size_cells': [1], 'this_node_path': '/soc@0/bus@30000000/snvs@30370000'} The function is looking for 'interrupts' but the interrupt declaration in the child node has been renamed to 'snvs_rtc_lp_interrupts'. This explains why the interrupts are omitted from the template generated code. A hacky fix, that does appear to work, is to paste the interrupt declarations into the parent node. I'm sure there's a more elegant way to resolve this but my detailed knowledge in this area is lacking. I am going to have a look at seL4 13.0.0 to see if this has already been fixed with a view to a potential backport but thought I'd check here before starting to dig a new hole to fall into. Many thanks, Zippy

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seL4 summit 2025: survey about location
by Birgit Brecknell 20 Nov '24

20 Nov '24

With the great success of the seL4 summit 2024 [0] behind us, we are now looking at the seL4 summit 2025! This should happen around Sep/Oct 2025, and will be held in Europe. We have started investigating options for the location, and would like your feedback. We would greatly appreciate it if you could fill in this very short survey to tell us your opinions: https://form.jotform.com/243076885259874 *Please do so by 29 Nov 2024.* Feel free to forward to anyone you believe may want to attend the summit next year. [0] https://sel4.systems/Foundation/Summit/2024/ Birgit Brecknell seL4 Foundation Project Coordinator Sydney, Australia Mon 9-5 Wed 2-5 Fri 9-5 birgit(a)sel4.systems <mailto:birgit@sel4.systems> bbrcknl(a)gmail.com <mailto:bbrcknl@gmail.com>

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Re: Modifying the root user thread's CSpace
by Indan Zupancic 16 Nov '24

16 Nov '24

Hi Ben, (Please don't drop CC.) Glad I could help. Don't be too hard on yourself, hindsight is easy. For defensive programming reasons (which also makes attacks harder), it's good to have a non-zero guard for your caps which doesn't overlap with your virtual address space, at least for the first level. For the last level it depends on how you want overflows to behave: If you want to seamlessly continue into the next CNode, have a zero guard size (good for e.g. dynamic CNode allocation). If you want to detect overflow errors on sets of caps, make sure you have a guard size of at least 1 bit. Having a non-zero guard value has less advantage for later CNode levels. Greetings, Indan On 2024-11-15 16:25, Ben McCart wrote: > Indan, > > Thank you so much! seL4_CNode_Mint instead of seL4_CNode_Copy solved > my problem. The piece I was missing was that I needed to change the > guard on the original seL4_CapInitThreadCNode when copying it into the > first CSlot of the new root CNode. (Doh!) I should have caught that > as you said explicitly in you prior response that each CNode capability > can have different guard bits set. (I just didn't think carefully > enough about that.) > > On 11/15/2024 4:55 AM, Indan Zupancic wrote: >> >> seL4_CNode_Copy can't change the guard, you have to use >> seL4_CNode_Mint() if you need to change it: >> >> assert(bi->initThreadCNodeSizeBits <= 16); >> seL4_CNode_Mint( >> cspace_cap, >> 0, // Destination index in the >> new Cap table. >> 16, // Number of bits for the new >> Cap table. >> seL4_CapInitThreadCNode, >> seL4_CapInitThreadCNode, >> seL4_WordBits, >> seL4_AllRights, >> 16 - bi->initThreadCNodeSizeBits); // Zero pad guard to reach 16 >> bits. >> <SNIP> >> Indan > > -Ben

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